This is the continued discussion from my January column on WomenEntrepreneur.com, talking about how women are finally getting a level playing field with Web 2.0 and the New Media Marketplace.
Last month, we talked about the second quality women have that gives them an advantage over men when marketing with New Media. Now let’s explore the third quality women naturally possess, giving them an edge in the Web 2.0 world.
3. Quality of the Successful New Media Marketer: Natural Influencer
Since the dawn of time, women have been influencing men–whether men admit it or not (Remember the apple? Bathsheba?).
Let’s cut to the chase for this post and go “Twitter Style,” shall we?
The bottom line is that, to influence and motivate another person, you really need to know what that other person cares about deeply. You need to discover what he or she is most proud of, what he or she enjoys doing, and what his or her goals are in business and in life.
Otherwise, you’re just employing a “one size fits all” approach–and all the ladies know that’s really not a size that works for anybody!
I think that’s what has created such a “Twitaddiction” (Twitter + addiction = Twitaddiction) in me and many others like me who are actively engaged on Twitter. You get to know what people are really interested in. And you get this information in bite-size pieces, so it doesn’t take that much time, which is what attracts men to Twitter in droves.
But here’s what I’ve seen. You can tell me if you’ve seen the same thing. When men first hear about Twitter they balk, scrunch up their faces and often ask, “Why would I want to participate in something that’s just a waste of my time? All this talk about nothing!”
Or aspiring entrepreneurs hear about how effective Twitter is for search-engine optimization, so they sign up, get their name reserved, but then fail to engage with their followers or participate in the conversation to get to know their clients or the marketplace.
I’ve seen one too many male-owned Twitter accounts with Tweet after Tweet pointing their followers to their blog with a tiny URL link. Hmmm . . . not very participatory or influencing, is it?
Mind you, this is not to group all men in this category because there are plenty of exceptions. Among them is Warren Whitlock, otherwise referred to as @WarrenWhitlock on Twitter, who really understands how to build connections on social networking sites. But my opinion is that he is not in the norm.
Robert Scoble (aka: @Scobleizer on Twitter) is another exception. He’s constantly asking engaging questions that often keep me hooked on Twitter long past midnight just to listen to all the answers to his conversation-stimulating questions.
I’m merely pointing out that connecting and influencing people is not something that comes naturally to men. But just as any skill can be learned in business in order to succeed, men are learning from women how to succeed in the New Media Marketplace that requires you to really get to know your clients, prospects and followers.
Someone on Twitter (Lisa Hyatt aka: @AboutLisa ) recently Tweeted, “If ‘Content’ is King–then ‘Marketing’ is Queen.”
All good chess players know that the queen is far more flexible and powerful on the board than the king is. That’s because she possesses the ability to engage in more moves. Some might call this “influencing”–wouldn’t you agree?
Perhaps it’s how our brains are wired, having both sides connected and communicating with each other, that makes us natural influencers and communicators.
Whatever it is–women, you need to embrace your natural gifts and use them for good, realizing that you have a natural advantage in the New Media Marketplace. Sso get going! No more excuses for you. There is no more glass ceiling with Web 2.0.
And men–keep on learning from the women you see who are effectively using New Media to gain followers through their ability to connect and influence their tribe. Two women pop into my mind immediately: @LynnTerry and @MariSmith, found on Twitter.
Oh! And if Twitter is a new word or concept for you, you can follow any of the above names prefaced with the @ symbol by going to Twitter.com and inserting his or her user name after it. You can find my profile and follow me on Twitter here: Twitter.com/CoachDeb
Now it’s your turn to talk back. Am I totally sexist or do I have a point?
What’s your Influence Quotient?
If you’re a man reading this with steam coming out your ears because you think you Tweet in an influential way–share your @ ID so we can check you out and see whether you’re worth following and/or continue to show you how to influence your Tribe in a more persuasive manner. In other words, we can help you bring out your “feminine side.”
I want to hear what you have to say about this quality being a natural quality women possess. Whether you agree or disagree, I welcome your feedback in the comment box below.
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Deborah Micek is a co-founder of the international business coaching company RPM Success Group ® Inc. She and her partner John Paul are authors of the hit book Secrets Of Online Persuasion. They are creators of the ONLY Web site system to put New Media to work marketing FOR you — BLOG i360™. You can reach Deborah at [MotivationMD@gmail.com] |
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Share your comments below.
For more on this topic, see the column, “Move Over, Men” at WomenEntrepreneur.com.
NOTE: Stay tuned for part 4 in this series… where I’m sure I’ll really say something cheeky about men vs. women.
This entry was posted on Wednesday, April 30th, 2008 at 5:26 am and is filed under Web 2.0 for Business, Social Networks, The Female Advantage, Twitter. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
April 30th, 2008 at 5:38 am
Hi Deb - I have to totally agree with this when it comes to men in general and their desire to really communicate on a more natural level with people. Not to say that some don’t as you point out, we women are just more or less born into it.
I love the whole chess comparison, it’s right on spot. And maybe it’s just in our nature (I know it is mine) to be chatterbugs that gives us the edge over guys. LOL
@Yvonne_Lyon
April 30th, 2008 at 5:55 am
Deb - interesting article, but if its true, then why are the most sought after Tweeters/Scoial Media “gurus” men? I think its because most men dont want to look as though they are influenced by, or lead by women. I think we see this in a lot of different fields, and we will see in the upcoming election. More than 90 percent of teachers are women, yet 90 percent of school admins are men, 90 percent or more of social workers are women, but my guess is more than 90 percent of social workers in admin roles are men. Maybe I am off track, and I know there are some influencial Women twitterers, but the top 5 to 10 are men.
April 30th, 2008 at 6:00 am
ahhh Lisa,
(aka: @pprlisa)
you bring up really good questions that deserve an article in itself!
(1st - keep in mind “gurus” aren’t necessarily “influencers”.)
And I think more and more women ARE being sought after in regards to being the experts in Social Media.
Now let’s explore a new way of thinking about this:
If women are not getting the opportunities because they feel they’re not being “sought after” perhaps THAT is the problem.
Business is NOT the same as dating.
If women are used to being “sought after” then they may need to shift their focus and try a new strategy and SEEK OUT the opportunities they want for themselves.
That’s what men have always been great at b/c they get a lot of practice from their early years of dating. They get used to enough rejection that they don’t take it personally or let it thwart their pursuits.
They just say NEXT! And move to create the next opportunity for themselves.
If women want the opportunity, they need to start connecting and supporting each other just as men do and CREATE the opportunities they want - just like men do.
Ahhh - but that’s for the next article
April 30th, 2008 at 6:05 am
It’s not strictly a Male/Female issue. And I’m not saying I’m particularly good at it. But, people that are naturally social, are going to have an easier time with social media. While people who are introverts are naturally going to have a difficult time with it.
That being said, you may also find that what men consider social is not the same as what women consider social. So, just because the tweat isn’t interesting to you, doesn’t mean the tweat isn’t interesting to someone else.
Ya know.. if a guy wrote post like this, he’d immediately be called sexist. Dangerous ground you are on. But, from what you’ve said on Twitter, you already know that.
April 30th, 2008 at 6:12 am
The exciting thing about social media is it does allow us to share not just our business ideas, but also our personal ideas. Up until now, everything was written from a business stand point. But with social media, we can develop relationships - which makes the whole thing very exciting.
That said, I still like to make sure I really have things of value to share. Writing on places like Squidoo and Hubpages comes natural because I can write and edit until I’m happy. Twitter is more spontaneous. It all comes down to value rather than promotion for me - what can I share that will be of value to my followers?
It’s all a learning process - and it’s so much fun.
April 30th, 2008 at 6:25 am
Deb, you’ve got it right. *Most* women have a nack for knowing how to understand what is going to click with a person. Those men that can do that are few and far between, but they do exist as you pointed out. And as Yvonne said, women are ‘chatter bugs’ we like to talk and find out more about people, that alone gives us an advantage. Most men I know would sit quietly rather then talking to a stranger. I’m the one that strikes up a conversation rather then being bored. Well, who can be bored when you have Twitter on your blackberry? But, either way, I’m conversing.
Great post!
April 30th, 2008 at 6:31 am
Hi Deb,
Being a Dad myself I will confess that my wife is a better manager of kids and influencer. I am sure that analogy can be carried on to the real world. If influencer is a quality that all women have, you are right that it helps them better in the New Media. Listening and participation are some key human traits that are useful in the New media and any individual who has them will be successful.
Your post is thought provoking and informative.
Thanks,
Shashi
April 30th, 2008 at 6:35 am
Thanks Yvonne, Deb & Lori & Dave
Yvonne - re: ‘chatterbugs that gives us the edge over guys” ooooh if my “loquacious” qualities give me an edge in new media - I’ll TAKE it! And then shove it in my 5th grade teachers face w/ her “not so positive report card that I was “loquacious” and needed to be quiet” yah! take THAT Mrs. D! hahaha
Dave - go ahead - DO IT! Call me Sexist - ya KNOW ya wanna! Do it!
Deb - “Well, who can be bored when you have Twitter on your blackberry” - EXACTLY!!! or on your iPhone - I’m never bored or anxious waiting on lines anymore! Twitter is my calming device when my Type A personality wants to kicks in while I wait for the turtle in front of me to MOVE!
Lori - ooooh your question retains the SECRET 2 success in Social Marketing, “what can I share that will be of value to my followers?”
Shashi - keep it up - it’s the learning that’ll give you the edge over other men who think they can enter the new media marketplace doing the “same ol’ things” they’ve always done. They’ll be left behind - while you’ll soar ahead - by following the leadership of women. Follow Lori’s advice above & you’ll be miles ahead of the crowd.
April 30th, 2008 at 6:49 am
Hi Deb,
You write with great insight into a new realm of marketing. I never felt the glass ceiling and never even thought about the power of influence.
I follow some interesting men who get the conversation, but you are so right about many of the big bloggers just linking to themselves and not getting the power of twitter.
I think women have had the girlfriend conversation going on when men didn’t make the time. The chatterbug also might stem from the innate ability to speak in small bites to children.
@JeanetteJoy
April 30th, 2008 at 7:05 am
Yes. You are totally sexist, and yes, you do have a point.
Individuals are unique is so many ways. Sex is a big one for sure. Personalities, culture, talents make us different to.
The real power in these new technologies is that we can reverse the trend of mass media, mass production, and mass distribution and address individuals.
Right now, the people who appear to “get it” and excel on Twitter, et al are still innovators, but there are still billions who have never heard of this, don’t write even 140 characters in a day.
Compared to them, the guy who uses Twitter to post a link is way out front.
I’d imagine that for every person posting ANYTHING, there are 10-100 lurkers reading posts, or maybe signing up for an account and wondering what all the fuss is about.
When I consider the big picture, I’m even more excited to think how wonderful it is that I’ve been able to connect with so many smart and intereting people on Twitter.
We’re just getting started people.
April 30th, 2008 at 7:10 am
@Warren Whitlock
once again - spoken like a true woman!
Oh! Except for calling me sexist. That was pure man.
Thank you! Finally someone acknowledging the concepts in the post really IS biased/sexist. Other men who came before you were still too scare of the political correctness movement to call me names. haha
Way 2 acknowledge the men who are using Twitter as early adopters. Whether they use it properly or ruin it for the masses is yet to be seen.
But - good thing I’ve always got my ears to the ground for the next best social network. Cuz that’s where me & the girls will be hopping once Twitter Robots take over.
April 30th, 2008 at 7:15 am
Deb, you’ve convinced me. ;-))
I do think influence is correlated with gender: to your point, women *seem* to have edge here. Whether genetic, socialized, or due to small sample + stereotyping….I’m not sure. At the same time, there are plenty of examples of “bulls in a china shop women” (in other words, less “influential” and more “control”) and men who are the opposite. Warren, Robert, others are good examples.
Maybe it’s less gender per se and more social conditioning: the traditional family, where Mom tends to play child-raising role might be a big factor: as Dads are learning (as they take on “stay at home Dad” roles or similar…) they too are learning that you can’t *tell* a child what to do–you have to use influence. Moms–who are often also in the workplace–have been practicing influence “at home” for a long, long time. I’d say it’s a safe bet that the typical 1920s - 50s Dad *told* people what he wanted done…but Mom actually made it happen (no doubt, through influence.)
For sure, we (all, collective) see this playing out on Twitter — Twitter is a near perfect “online” analog to table-hopping in a restaurant. Control (in this context) is pretty much useless — it is almost a pure “influence” environment. The same dynamic sets up in social media when applied to marketing versus traditional media. The latter is command and control: I define my pessage and push it out. The former (sm) is influence + participation: I “suggest” something and the community picks it up, amplifies or rejects it, plays with it, shares it, or ignores it. The lack of control in social media is a fear point for many marketers, just as the recognition of the role of (earned) influence, as you’ve developed in your post, is more difficult to master than (designated, for example by title) control.
Great post. Made me think.
April 30th, 2008 at 7:16 am
Aloha Dave Evans
oooh music to me ears (Irish accent)
I love hearing I got someone THINKING.
You really raised VERY good points.
Ooooh this is all good - all stimulating the NEXT article in the series.
Thank you for contributing - both here AND on Twitter.
YOU are a guy who GETS IT on Twitter.
Welcome to the Club
April 30th, 2008 at 7:16 am
I both agree and disagree. I am not sure that it comes naturally to all women as personal self esteem plays a large role in whether people feel empowered or not. I do believe that women are better listeners, and often, better communicators. Having the ability to tune into what makes a person tick definitely gives us an edge.
April 30th, 2008 at 7:39 am
A well written, thought provoking post. First, I haven’t read the previous columns yet, so keep that in mind.
I think today we are seeing a transformation in the roles of male and female that is departing greatly from past history. We evolved as humans from conditions that placed heavy emphasis on survival … the males were generally charged with the duties of war, protection, hunting food and similar activities relying heavily on physical strength.
While they could be social among their comrades, they tended to be wary of strangers. Competition for dominance also was a strong influence on men’s behavior.
Now we find ourselves in an era where physical strength is not always so important to rising to the top of our fields of endeavor (athletes and manual labor excepted).
As for social skills, men often are motivated more by sizing up their competition, ie: evaluating the potential threat (competition)of others. Men are also looking for potential allies to help us achieve our own goals and ambitions.
We may also see women as potential partners that can help us succeed as well as to produce admiration from other men. Having a wife and family can often profoundly change a male’s views on responsibility and motivation to succeed.
I don’t say these are necessarily the right or best character traits, just that we have a long, long history of being conditioned as males to place great emphasis on them.
Changing such inherent behavior comes more quickly for some than for others. Behavior for both males and females is usually the result of experiences, especially our childhood experiences.
Those who were raised by stay at home Moms probably had different experiences, heavily influenced by a female (mom), than those raised by working moms whose role was more similar to the traditional dad role in many ways.
All in all, I do like the direction that Web 2.0 and the New Media Marketplace are moving in and if women take the lead and show the way, I have no hesitation about letting them influence me.
If something works, I want to embrace it … what difference does it make whether it originated from a male or a female?
Al Hannigan
April 30th, 2008 at 7:41 am
Deb,
Women are natural communicators. We seem to have the ability to put words together with such articulation in getting our point across. Many women seem to always come up with the right thing to say at the right time. Some think the estrogen levels in our bodies contribute to our natural abilities to communicate. This natural characteristic benefits us in business relationships, as we are able to implement various means of communications that assist us in networking, marketing, and customer service. Having a way with words exemplifies power, and power is exactly what today’s businesswoman has a wealth of!
An additional trait that is found in women is our ability to be a multitask machine. In contrast to men, our brains are equipped to process a diverse amount of information at once. As we rapidly process information, we are able to move through the details of each task and perform several things at once. This accounts for our ability to manage multiple telephone lines, type a detailed report, prepare lunch, and wash a load of clothes all at the same time. Men, however, are lineal thinkers. They tend to focus on doing one thing at a time, moving in a step-by-step procedure in accomplishing their tasks.
Differences in the chemical make up of men and women create differences in how men and women position themselves. While men tend to put more emphasis on rank, women are more concerned with creating a happy balance between family and work. Men tend to be more natural-born protectors while women are natural-born nurturers. These characteristics rank women high in people skills, thus contributing even more to their success. Why? Women use these natural abilities to form, cultivate, and foster business relationships, therefore, creating lasting business associations in her business circle.
With the opportunities available to women today, there has never been a better time to be a woman in business than now. By honing in on their natural talents, women are experiencing a level of success that was unimaginable to their equals years ago. Women have always had the abilities… we are just now realizing the opportunities!
All good things,
Bonnie
P.S. But… this by no means makes men inferior to women or a woman more influential in business than her male counterpart. If anything it just proves the male and female species do tasks in a different manner to get the SAME results.
I think I’ll turn this response into an article now. LOL
Thanks for the opportunity to post my opinion!
April 30th, 2008 at 7:45 am
Hi Deb! I have pondered many of these gender issues of late too. Men and women certainly have different communication styles and both seem to work well with Twitter. I do however note that men are naturally better at self promotion. I am watching and learning as this area does not come easily for me. However, as we all broaden our viewpoint we can help close the gap between men and women and enjoy the richness of different styles, perspectives and genders!
April 30th, 2008 at 8:30 am
Karen Swim,
Well the GOOD news re: to “self-promotion” is that when you engage your tribe properly in the new media marketplace - YOU don’t have to be self-promotional! Your tribe will promote how cool you are FOR you!
April 30th, 2008 at 9:11 am
Excellent post, Deb!
I do tend to agree with you on one level about gender differences. Women are typically more skilled at forming & maintaining warm relationships.
However, a topic close to my heart is personality assessments. And the person you’re describing in your post here is indeed an Influencer, or “High I” on the DISC model (”I” = influence). Someone with more Extroversion tendencies on Myers Briggs - they’re expressive, talkative, outgoing; they get their energy from interacting with people (Introverts get their energy from alone time).
Definitely a person with a strong need for Social Contact, Interdependence and likely Curiosity and Status too on the Reiss Desire Profile (measures 16 intrinsic motivations).
Sooooo, I typically relate to the world through the filters of all these assessments I’ve studied, and reckon while there are typical patterns for men and for women, men could be just as much of an Influencer as women.
My $0.02.
@marismith
April 30th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Mari Smith,
Ahhhh now you’re jumping ahead to the NEXT article series!
I do wonder however, how many more women are Natural born Influencers AKA: “I” (using the DISC behavioral assessment model) than men.
Do you know if there is a study with that type of statistical research?
April 30th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Deb:
What a great discussion!
I agree that social networking taps into the strengths of women: multitasking, relationship building, and getting to the heart of a situation are traits that many (not all) women share.
I happen to be one of those intuitive, outgoing, relationship building types (E-something on the meyers briggs) so social networking is perfect for me.
The hard sell, pitchathon approaches don’t fit here at all. A lot of internet marketers are dirtying the waters with their style. We need to look at the 20 somethings and follow their leads- disdain for hard sell, using technology to communicate intimacy and status levels, finding what brings us together.
Seeing your comments that people think this is sexist makes me chuckle… OK, I need to dig into my graduate work in women’s studies for this one but listen up folks: Sexism is an institutionalized form of discrimination. Until this is a woman run world, it is impossible for a woman to be sexist. She can have a bias, she can have prejudices, but she cannot be sexist.
Keep at it Deb, you rock!
@NancyMarmolejo on Twitter
April 30th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
So glad to be “following” such an interesting person! Thanks for the insight!
Cheryl Brownlee
April 30th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Aloha Nancy,
I love what you suggested re:
“We need to look at the 20 somethings and follow their leads …”
Powerful advice.
But re:
“It is impossible for a woman to be sexist.”
I have to disagree.
I’m afraid if you dig into your graduate work in women’s studies you’ll be doing yourself a disservice because last century was a very different world - before New Media.
Now that we’re living in a Post New Media world - women DO have the power online and they’re wielding it rather well with the firestorm of word-of-mouth marketing or taking people down a notch.
They’re using their power online with their pocketbooks and only rewarding those who she deems worthy. Women are funding businesses, serving as angel investors, and making policy decisions - all signs of “institutional power”. Not that the “institution has anything to do with New Media Marketing where a new surge of power is building.
But I’m open for discussion and debate on this subject.
Can women be sexist?
Anyone? Nancy? Anyone?
April 30th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Hey Deb!
Thanks for your reply, and I don’t want to hijack your thread with a discussion of gender issues, but sexism has nothing to do w/ a woman’s power to purchase or create word of mouth marketing. It has to do w/ societal power balances/imbalances, perceptions, attitudes, treatment, and a whole lot more. A powerful woman who is sharing her opinion that Web 2.0 is best suited for women is not being sexist, that is my main point!
Where you and I can converge on this topic is this: as women we hold enormous power and Web 2.0 is our playing field.
Let’s keep the sisterhood alive and support each others success!
all the best,
Nancy
@NancyMarmolejo on Twitter
April 30th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Great article and comment discussion above…no you are not sexist you are just pointing to men & women’s different styles and way of communicating, and creating relatedness. These differences are just different, not better or bad just different. My experience is that all men want to do is provide, and women want to need to first create relatedness and then we provide ongoing.
And yes I believe we can be sexist in the same way men can be…it is a power thing… not all men or women are sexist.
@LindaZimmer on twitter
April 30th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Nancy Marmolejo
Hijack away!
I love this discussion! And healthy debate is always a good thing in a free society.
I do love how all these women are here supporting me saying no way am I sexist. Ahhh gotta luv the sistahood eh?!
I luv what you do. Keep it up! And let’s continue the debate on Twitter tonight shall we?
April 30th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
[…] to my RSS feed. Thanks for visiting!I just read a very controversial article by Deborah over at New Media Marketing on how to be more influential in social networks, specifically twitter. Deborah wrote in […]
April 30th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
You asked, “Am I totally sexist?” Well, not totally! Just a little!
I always get a kick out of people who contrast one classes against the other, one nationality against the other, or one gender against the other, as though one is “better” or “superior” to another. I didn’t get that from your post.
Because you simply point out some strengths that women have that are typically deficient in men, does not make you sexist (at least not “totally” sexist anyway
Women have a lot of incredible qualities I can think of that men don’t have, nor would I want to have. I would much rather enjoy them from the perspective of a woman. It’s just the way it is. It’s a natural kinda thing that we were all built with (er um, I mean “you” were built with).
Guys have qualities that women don’t have too. No, really, I’m not kidding!
It’s not like I’m sexist if I bring this to anyone’s attention. It’s just a fact. These qualities enable both sexes to do things the other sex is less capable of (or not capable at all in some instances), and thereby enjoy life to its fullest. That’s what makes life a beautiful thang!
Youz gots stuffs that weez don’t gots, and thats a fact!
May 1st, 2008 at 2:00 am
Deb,
Good article well thought-out and well written.
Are you sexist? If allowing yourself to acknowledge that there is a distinct benefit to the feminine means you are sexist, then the answer is yes.
We men, are products of societal and cultural programming. Not an excuse, just a fact. Many women accept certain roles because of this as well.
I have 3 sisters and 3 daughters, no brothers or sons. So I had a strong feminine influence in my life. It has helped me many times in my life but also caused problems with male bonding.
I have noticed that on the web, a truly equal opportunity employer, that many women have risen to the top and are doing very well. I feel if men don’t wake up to the fact they we are being outplayed, outwitted, and outlasted, the tables will turn.
The best would be balance both in individuals and groups. I always cringed when I heard women fighting for equal rights, I also saw them as having the advantage. We men use force and strength to get our way, women use charm, guile and play mens emotions to change things.
Yes, women have a distinct advantage and that is a good lesson for us men. I used to think Oprah was just for women but have learned what is shared there is good for life.
I do confess I am one of those who wonder what good is Twitter. It might be that I didn’t know how to use it and had no followers. If you Tweet and nobody reads it, was there actually a Tweet?
May 1st, 2008 at 2:15 am
Darwin,
WOW! You really DO “get” women! I’m VERY impressed! (and I really don’t impress easily.)
Now I wanna follow you on Twitter! Trust me - once you have a Tweetersation with me on Twitter - you WILL have followers - more followers than you can handle perhaps?
PS: hmmm… are you a Survivor fan?
May 1st, 2008 at 4:07 am
Mark Gilbert thank you for what you wrote… I totally agree, men & women are different, bring many different qualities and abilities to the table as I wrote before not better just different…
As a women once I learned who men are, how to listen and speak in a way they could hear and be heard, I found out that mostly all they want to do for the women they care about is make us happy, help and provide for us.
Now I too am happy for the differences between men & women, and always try to let men be men…
Now ladies & gentlemen who are reading this, believe me this does not make me a damsel in distress, nor a push over. I am a powerful, liberated women, just able to communicate and get what I need from the men in my life with out manipulation or need to fight it out or overpower. And since when women are in business mode they seem to take on masculine traits, I am able to use the same ways of being and communication and get the same easy results at work.
Yes I too am happy for the differences both at work and at home, it has made my life much more powerful & peaceful at the same time
@LindaZimmer
May 1st, 2008 at 6:05 am
@WarrenWhitlock stole my lines!
Yes, you are totally sexist. Yes, you have a point. A very good point.
I’ll also point to a comment I left on one of Alice Seba’s blog posts here:
Is This Sweetie Stuff Just for Women?
http://snipurl.com/imssdm
All success
Dr.Mani
May 1st, 2008 at 7:25 am
Thanks Dr. Mani,
Finally! Men able to admit my comments/post was indeed - sexist.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:56 am
Deb -
@davelakhani here!
Nice post with some very interesting ideas.
I’m inclined to not see you post so much as sexist as I am seeing it as using tension to make a point, and this post demonstrates that nicely.
There is no qualitative research that indicates women are better at influencing or persuading than men. In fact, much of the research points in the other direction. Much of that may have to do with social evolution over the years, men have traditionally taken roles of power in society and government. As a result, they’ve developed into more impactful figures as it relates to influence or persuasion. Still (and hopefully not for long, I have a 4 year old daughter) men hold the predominent positions of power in the world, a lot of that has to do with women being ineffective at creating meaningful persuasion or influence strategies to get society to see them as being able to take an equal (and rightful) place in positions of power.
Women are naturally good at what most people term seduction though throughout history there is more equality in the level of seduction than anywhere else. Seduction done right keeps the desire brimming, unfulfilled, and peaked again for long periods of time.
Sex continues to be a means of raising tension in any conversation. And, when aroused, people tend to make much different decisions and less carefully than they imagined. There is a great deal of research around this done by MIT professor Dan Ariely whom I interviewed recently that you can listen to at boldapproach.com/replay.
In terms of social media I haven’t seen any evidence that traditional communication styles have changed between men and women. Both continue to communicate the way they do in the new medium as much to the chagrin of many. The Forrester research encapulated in the book Groundswell doesn’t seem to indicate that either.
The bottom line is that the more people study the persuasion and seduction strategies that you teach and integrate them into their social media interactions and give up the need to remain in control of the media the more successful they become. Social media is the where memes thrive.
Tension is one tool that creates message contagion in any media online or off.
Dave Lakhani
Author: Subliminal Persuasion: Influence and Marketing Secrets They Don’t Want You To Know &
Persuasion: The Art of Getting What You Want
May 1st, 2008 at 12:02 pm
My partner and I were only discussing this last night. It stemmed from an observation I had made about how he was able, when he’d got home from work, to circumnavigate the dirty dishes, the dry washing - still hanging up and waiting to be put away - the ironing board and iron, not yet put away since they were used in the morning - taking up all the available space in our small kitchen, to log on and start twittering and catching up on blogs(which is how I found him when I got back sometime later). The thing is, he just doesn’t see these things. They don’t come onto the radar. He’s being honest, not trying to dodge his share of the household chores.
I think this is because of the male mind’s bias towards heightened focus, which is one reason - I suggest - why so many more men still ‘get to the top’ than women. This extends into the way men communicate - in my experience, it’s usually a lot more direct, forthright, and to the point. On the other hand, women tend to be better multi-taskers and have more of a 360° communication style, which is more tapped into emotional subtleties and, as a result, tends to be less direct. I know when I get together with female friends the number of tangents far outweigh those in my conversations with most men.
@markgilbert has a good point - weez gots stuff that youz don’t and vice versa!
Inspired by your lively debate to find out whether I’m talking a load of nonsense, or whether there’s any research to back any of this up I found this -http://tinyurl.com/56dr9k
I think I’m still on the side of nature, not nurture.
May 1st, 2008 at 5:26 pm
OK, had to jump on board here when @davelakhani wondered if you would still be friends.
Now I may be a weird one but I never saw this as a male/female thing. I guess “growing my career” in a male-dominated society called Motorola I just learned to tune it out and do what I do naturally to leap forward. Or maybe I just adapted too much male energy (my google guy think’s I’m from the East Coast cause I’m so results-driven.)
That being said, what I think is really fascinating is that I actually enjoy the posts from alot of the male twitters often more than the female twitters…
Or maybe, I just relate more to their style?
I’m a huge “I” in DISC and a big connector but often I experience the barage of random thoughts a bit innane. Maybe because I am so focused on “high payoff activities” that I appreciate the posters who get to the point. =-)
Thought I’d throw out a different POV from the female who thinks like a male but has a way of connecting with both.
@melcoach on twitter.
PS The best part of all though is noticing that everyone has a style that works for someone — good to equally attract your ideal and repel the people who will never get you anyway, right?
May 1st, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Aloha @melcoach
I love your POV! Thank you SO much for sharing.
From what you’ve shared - it sounds like you’ve got a high “D” too (from the DISC model - or what we use to discover someone’s “Communication Code”). What’s the number?
It also sounds like you have a high need for results - and using the Motivation Assessment Code - that would be a Strong Utilitarian. So regardless if they’re male OR female - you’ll enjoy the tweets that get to the point & give you something of value.
Am I right in this assumption?
As 4 your PS - youuuu betcha! That’s the idea girlfriend!
(Now I’m off to Tweet you from @CoachDeb to @MelCoach cuz you sound uber cool!)
May 1st, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Aloha Dave Lakhani
AKA: @DaveLakhani
Always great hearing from you.
Thanks for posting the URL to your interview with MIT professor Dan Ariely. Sounds rather stimulating - I’ll go listen to it after I publish this comment.
Do you have a post where my readers can comment on the subject? I’m sure I’ll have lots to say when I listen to it. Hot Topic for sure!
hmmm… re: how men have
“developed into more impactful figures as it relates to influence or persuasion…”
Isn’t that relative to the area of society you’re referring to?
Afterall, can’t we say that “traditionally” women have had a more impactful and influential role on society on the children they have raised?
Dave Evans (Comment #12) had me thinking about that angle which hadn’t even come into my consciousness when I wrote this article. Very good point Dave. (hmm… interesting how all the “Dave’s” are making great points in this great debate.
Afterall, if Edison wasn’t home schooled by a woman, would we even be able to type this right now? Or would we still be living by candlelight because academia punishes diverse and independent thinkers?
While men have typically enjoyed the glory and fame of these positions of power, there has always been a woman’s influence behind him. Wouldn’t you agree?
Guess that’s why “they” say:
“Behind every great man is an influential woman.”
Hey - good point bringing up the subject of women and their use of “seduction”. Ahhh… so many ideas for future articles.
PS: Can’t wait to get my hands on your new book,”Subliminal Persuasion”! Warren Whitlock mentioned it came out early release! Guess they responded to the public cries for it!
(perhaps it’s time for a Hawaii book tour?
hmmmm? say no more?)
See ya on Twitter Dave!
May 1st, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Deb -
Looking forward to a Hawaii book tour for sure!
If people want to listen to the replay and comment on it they can do it here:
Bold Approach reply line
I don’t think in terms of persuasion whether or not
Mother’s are impactful on their children is relevant. If they don’t now how to teach them to be persuasive, if you value persuasion, they fail to have impact, if they do, they can have impact. At the end of the day societal conformity and expectation will dictate who is in a position to persuade. Interestingly I think that what is happening in the Presidential race will make headway and I think even Carly the former CEO of HP is showing that there is a change underway, but these changes take a long time. Until that change I think that decisions in Western society to be sure large social decisions will still often be made by men. I want to be clear I don’t find that a necessisarily valuable construct and I certainly hope for my daughter’s sake that it changes or that I teach her powerful enough persuasion skills that she makes the change. The other side of your argument about women and mothers is that they are responsible for the failure of their children to be persuasive because they didn’t have enough impact . . .
I also don’t think that it is relevant that Edison was homeschooled by a woman, it could have been either a man or a woman with the same level of skills and understanding of learning (his mother at one point was a teacher). Edison had a certain level of natural talent that when combined with his willingness to experiment and keep testing new ideas and learning (after homeschooling) being resiliant and having strong observational skills led him to many of his discoveries. Not suggesting his mother didn’t play an important role, she clearly did. But, had his father had the same set of skills he could easily have done the same, his education was by a woman, not as a result of her being a woman.
Would I agree that there has always been a woman behind a man, I guess that depends how you perceive the role the woman played. There is no question that in some cases women were helping or even controlling what the men said and did, but historically those are much more exceptions than the rule. I don’t buy into cliches like “behind ever good man is a good woman.” I don’t think those ideas are helpful nor do I see them advancing women, I see them holding them in place . . . behind a man. I don’t want that for my daughter.
You see, part of understanding subliminal persuasion is seeing the memeplexes where they exist and understanding how to root out the fnords before they take hold in the mind of my daughter.
I think that creating divides between men and women and saying that one is better than the other at non biologically driven things is dangerous. I think that it forwards stereotypes I’m not comfortable with.
When I was in a cult women were inferior because of a pervasive (and to many persuasive) mythology that said woman was made from the rib of a man. And the interpretation was that they were therefore inferior and had less worth. Convenient for men, not great for women.
The attempts to make one sex better than the other at anything only encourages defensiveness and unnecessary one upsmanship. A better tool is to simply perform. Do what you do best and let others see through the example that in fact women are as capable as men and vice versa.
On the topic of seduction, a woman once told me that she could outsell me simply because she had breasts and men would pay attention to her because of it. I was willing to wager, she displayed her breasts and sold (she said she just had to show them to get the sale) and then I’d sell and winner take all at the end, she could choose the product. She wouldn’t take the wager and was smart not to, that kind of thing doesn’t work, seduction is more elegant than that.
Now, dear reader, if you’ve read this far, you’ll realize that I’m employing one of the most powerful tools of persuasion, tension. I’m not trying to challenge Deb in a way that will cause the end of our friendship (I care deeply about Deb and JP and I’m confident they know that). What I’m doing is allowing the tension, the intensity to build by challenging her ideas and causing you to read on. I’m polarizing some of you, another powerful persuasion tool. Even the tweet that I sent was designed to create a certain level of tension, would Deb still be my friend? Would I offend her? How would she react. It causes a certain kind of desire in a targeted audience to want to read more.
Nice work Deb, you’ve got people thinking.
Dave Lakhani
Author: Subliminal Persuasion : Influence and Marketing Secrets They Don’t Want You To Know &
Persuasion: The Art of Getting What You Want
May 1st, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Aloha Dave Lakhani,
While I might not like what you said, I can’t argue about what you said re:
“decisions in Western society to be sure large social decisions will still often be made by men.”
Like it or not - presidential elections in the US are swayed one way or another by men.
Is it because women stay home and do NOT exercise their right to vote thinking their vote doesn’t matter? Or because of the way the policies are structured? OR are they just “too busy” to make their voices heard?
With all the fuss going on with the “super” delegates making the decisions on who will get the right to run for President I guess I see why they think their vote doesn’t count, and therefore they give up their right to influence an election.
As for Edison - ok - here’s where I’ll argue with you till I’m blue in the face (whatever THAT means).
Edison was NOT homeschooled by a man.
He was homeschooled by a woman.
And that’s my point.
Compare “traditional” teaching methods, structure of public schools, etc. where they reward perfection, punish mistakes and expel free thought to a home school environment where the child is nurtured and encouraged to explore.
You’ve got one methodology (public school) created by men where the teacher stands as the authority in a dictatorship like role.
And the other (home schooling) where the child is learning through exploration, trial and error, continually encouraged by their mother’s influence to keep on going, try another way, keep questioning things. This is no doubt a more feminine style of teaching through influence - not dictatorship.
And with the rise of home schooling - I think THAT is a testiment to how women are shaping “large social decisions” today.
BTW: I’m not into cliches either - thus you’ll notice how I revised what “they” say. And my point was that it was about the PAST - not the future. B/c quite frankly - I’m w/ you. I don’t think women belong behind her man either. I think men are much better positioned these days behind their women.
But I don’t know if our society is ready for that. Just look at the democratic party for evidence of this.
BTW: I loved reading your reply - as always your writing is captivating, engaging, and with every paragraph, I couldn’t wait to get to the next! It’s no surprise you’re a best selling author Dave!
Ok - I’d love to stay and debate more with you (one of my favorite past times - esp when I’m right
but I’ve gotta get on Amazon and go buy your latest book “Subliminal Persuasion”!
Can’t wait to pull an all-nighter w/ your book, they’re always such great page-turners!
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:33 am
CoachDeb
Thanks. I don’t believe I fully understand women, at least not all. I do try. Thanks for that comment. Envy you guys living on North Shore. I spent 4 years on Oahu, but down in Pearl City area. I headed up to North Shore as often as possible.
Sunsets on Sunset Beach, 10 meter waves at Waimea.
I am a fan of Survivor of sorts. With a military background my concept of survivor is fulfilling basic needs but I soon learned it is more social survival, influence, persuasion, deceit etc.
Happy to see Dave Lakhani here. I love his books and my copy of his latest just arrived via Amazon. Now that it is May I will be ordering your book. Seems interesting.
Keep up the good work
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:36 am
Aloha Darwin,
Mahalo for your reply. Waimea is certainly one of my top 5 beaches here. Absolutely breathtaking isn’t it?
With your military background the “reality” show Survivor must be such a joke (and bit of an insult) to you. I’ve got to admit the show’s original appeal actually lost its lure after 9/11 tragedy when people were truly put in real survival situations.
I caught an episode last week and saw a group of conniving, catty women manipulating the men in their tribe - which perhaps was the catalyst for this post? LOL hmmm… anyhoo
Yah - Dave Lakhani rocks. Met him years ago at a relatively boring conference when we both wound up cutting out into another room, chatting for hours about business, life, the laws of influence, persuasion and manipulation tactics of psychics, shiesters and cold readers. Wound up to be one of the most stimulating chats in a long time.
Guess that’s why I love Twitter so much. I don’t have to leave my lil island in order to connect w/ some of the most brilliant minds on the planet. I just have to log on to my computer and Voila! Brilliance awaits stimulation.
See ya on Twitter?
@CoachDeb
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:14 am
Deb,
Interesting post and thoughts. I actually tend to not even make the distinction of man versus woman as far as technology influencer’s. I simply embrace a person for their passions, desires, knowledge, talents and ability to share and communicate.
There are many great women technology leaders. @Charlene Li from Forrester as an example. She is co-author with Josh Berman of the Great book Groundswell. I did an interview of her here: Groundswell Interview
The bottom line is that a persons ability to communicate has nothing to do with their gender. Blanket statements like one is better than the other is old fashioned thinking. Just my thoughts.
You can follow me here. http://twitter.com/rumford
Be Great!
May 2nd, 2008 at 5:15 am
Aloha Rodney Rumford
AKA: @Rumford
ahhhh I see the feminists have indeed successfully influenced you to see no differences between men and women and their styles of communication and influence.
regarding your comment:
“Blanket statements like one is better than the other is old fashioned thinking.”
Personally, I’m of the opinion that women do have different strategies and ways of thinking than men. Whether that’s nature, nurture, personality, communication styles, values, upbringing, etc. or the way their brains are wired differently than men, we do things differently.
I also think it’s a good time to be a woman, because we’ve finally reached a place in business where we can now celebrate our differences, and utilize each of our strengths accordingly - instead of trying to pretend we’re all alike and aren’t different from one another. What a boring world that would be! right?
BTW: Thanks 4 sharing the interview with Charlene Li from your Face Reviews site. It’s been great following you on Twitter too!
May 2nd, 2008 at 6:18 am
Hi all, I’m brand new to Twitter, as in today, and it’s already enriched my life by pointing me to this conversation, courtesy of Lisa Dilg/Perkett Persuasion. Your ideas really help me get an idea of what Twitter is all about, so thank you. Bonnie’s point about multitasking hits home. I’ve only following about 5 people on Twitter and already I’m getting a little uneasy wondering how I’m going to keep this all straight. But I think it’s tough to generalize about men vs women when it comes to communication styles. Another way I like to think about communication is how some people like to talk about people, some like to talk about things (sports, politics, hobbies), and some like to talk about ideas. In Twitter, do people break down into groups along those lines? If so, are there male vs female patterns?
May 2nd, 2008 at 6:47 am
I didnt read all the comments. Sorry but i have a semi short attention span and i’m also supposed to be working
The one thing that i just cant wrap my tiny brain around is you saying that you were “merely pointing out that connecting and influencing people is not something that comes naturally to men. ”
How does the ability of “SOME” women to engage in thoughtful conversation on twitter and the inability of “SOME” men to do the same amount to “influencing”? Connecting, sure. But INFLUENCING? I doubt it.
I am rarely influenced by someone, male or female, simply because they are able to hold my attention in a conversation. If they have the most engaging style in the world, and have me enraptured, but i dont need, want or care about “their product”, they wont influence me one bit.
Some of the most enjoyable of my contacts, yourself include, have still yet to get my to their blogs. I only went to yours today, after 3-4 weeks of being engaged and enraptured by you, because I was curious what you did to cause such a stir
I *LOVE* Gary Vaynerchuck, and subscribe to his Podcast, and even bought this month’s Secret Pack, but have yet to “drink the Kool Ade” and buy his new book. Not because he isnt engaging and interesting and influencing, but because, i have no want need or desire.
So this paradigm that you hold, that women are more influencing, and men aren’t, based on their ability to hold conversations on twitter, seems a tad flawed. At least that’s how I see it. I am sure there’s some empirical research done or being done to prove it, with test case after test case showing how Eve influenced Adam to bite the apple, and it hasnt stopped yet. I just dont think it’s necessarily based on the acitivty on twitter or other social media.
Now .. maybe the influence is based on “sex”. Not male v female, but the whole “sex sells” idea. Do a man’s endorphins kick in when he’s “engaged” by a woman, so much so that some chemical reaction makes him more easily influenced? And it’s not REALLY what she has to say, but how he FEELS, that makes him a lamb to slaughter? Possibly. I’m an accountant/geek, not a clinical researcher. I’ll let a White Coat figure that out. But i can tell you now that I will buy the QVC Item of the day from the hot looking model showing me the purple and green plaid pants a hell of a lot faster than the guy showing me the 1080p flat screen 62″ tv for $9.99… maybe i’m weak?
Ok, i’m rambling and likely going to be torn to shreds by someone appalled that I’d even infer that the influencing going on is “sexual” in nature and not “content” driven. Ok .. you live in your fantasy world, i’ll live in mine.
Please dont follow me @ http://twiter.com/msh2006 … i really dont say anything engaging or influencing.
(i also dont use capitalization, punctuation, or apostrophes in my contractions)
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:30 am
Aloha Matt
AKA: @Msh2006
ooooooh you’re gonna be in troooouble!
ok
1st - Thanks 4 stopping by and contributing to the conversation
2nd - Thanks 4 proving my point
Sure, it may have taken you a month after meeting me on Twitter to visit any of my blogs. But - here you are now - so - there ya’ go.
I think this quality of women having an advantage in social media will be discussed in a future post in this 7 part series - b/c you’re onto a good point.
re: women having the patience and listening to their intuition to influence someone when the time is right vs. men who just want to dive on in and SELL! SELL! SELL! the moment they meet you!
YECK! lemmie wipe the slim off my sleeves while I compose myself after thinking of those types. {she shudders}
3rd - Brava for sharing what influences you as a man. If women rail you for admitting this - shame on them. They need to listen to the realities if they’re going to understand their marketplace and be competitive.
Sex sells.
You’re right.
Are you weak for the fact that you’ll…
“…buy the QVC Item of the day from the hot looking model showing me the purple and green plaid pants a hell of a lot faster than the guy showing me the 1080p flat screen 62″ tv for $9.99″
NO!
In fact, I say you’re bold and courageous for admitting this confession Matt! Thank you for sharing that. I think in a day where so many women want to hide from this fact of nature, we need strong men like you who will be honest with us, tell us what influences you, and hit the BUY button on QVC every single time.
But - I’m just one woman. What say you women reading this?
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Deb -
I’m not sure about the current statsitics around the number of women who vote compared to men, but I do know that women vote independently now so they do have a say, if they choose not to vote (there is NO valid reason other than hospitalization and some extreme circumstances not to) then they are demonstrating their unwillingness to use the power afforded them, same for men.
RE: Edison
I’m still going with bad argument. So his mother educated him, so what? It isn’t that men are incapable, (look at the number of men teachers) it is just that his mother chose that path. He is an exception to the rule and remains exceptional. Edison was brilliant, he was a prodigy, he would have likely excelled and done amazing things without any education. Maybe the smartest thing his mother did was remove him from public Christian education of the day where his intellect would have been subject to the teachings of the church. Edison was an Atheist who could not conceive of the idea of a soul.
In terms of schools today, I’m REALLY going to disagree. They don’t reward perfection nor do they punish mistakes (Think No Child Left Behind). They educate to the lowest common denominator not the highest, the brightest kids are not challenged. It is one of the biggest problems facing education today.
Home Schooling in my opinion is not much better. While it is improving because it is being monitored, a large majority of home schooled children are being taught a curriculum that is supported by their religious faith and not by the latest science and often not even a look at the counter argument. Evolution leaps to mind. The desire to not have children exposed to ideals that lead to free thought is why many children are home schooled today. And, the big issue is that most of the people who are home schooling their children are in no way qualified to educate children. I’m a reasonably smart guy and my wife is pretty bright too. Neither of us would presume to educate our child even with an approved cirriculum. They miss out on a key component of education, diverse social interactions. And, neither of us are well trained in the most current learning and teaching modalities that we can pass to our children. Even average teachers are required to have ongoing education to learn to teach better.
In terms of contributions nearly all of the brightest thinkers and contributors to society in our current past to be sure from Einstein to Greene to nearly anyone you can name is traditionally educated. And like Edison, their brilliance comes not only from their traditional education but from their willingness to ponder, experiment, and take risk, then to document and prove their ideas, even in the face of adversity. I find it very interesting that about 90% of the memmbers of the National Academy of Science are Atheist. Like evolution, Atheism is not part of most home school educations. There are a fair number of fundamentalists in the United States who believe for example, in spite of undeniable evidence that the earth is only 5000 years old and that dinosaurs never existed. They tend to lean heavily on the mythology that you pointed to in your original post around the Garden of Eden, which I find to be a beautiful story and a wonderful attempt to comprehend the origin of the species by people who drilled holes in heads to cure headaches and burned witches at the stake.
These are not lines drawn by sex or by which sex parent or teacher educated them. It is drawn by their willingness to continue to learn from all sources and to postulate and take risk.
I’m sorry, changing the phrase from behind every good man is a good woman to behind every powerful man is an influential woman doesn’t do anything to move women forward. I do however recognize a nice use of sexual inuendo to change the energy of the conversation by suggesting that women want their men behind them. Nice sharing.
I love it that you think you are right and especially like the way you get people engaged in conversation.
Thanks for buying the book, I already asked Laura to connect with you to send you an autographed copy so I can be even closer to your heart than I’m certain I am currently. Feel free to put it on the shelf behind you!
All the best,
Dave Lakhani
Author of: Subliminal Persuasion: Influence and Marketing Secrets They Don’t Want You To Know &
Persuasion: The Art of Getting What You Want
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:24 pm
OK, I finally get to weigh in on all this. I like to watch the blood flow and then step in w strategic analysis.
#1 - it’s always amazing to watch people’s emotions get triggered by what Dave Lakhani accurately IDs as “tension.” It’s one of the reasons I like to flawlessly combine politics, media and business together for the profit of our Tribe. It allows you to bond with and rally Loyals in your Tribe. While at the same time causes automatic reactions from dissenters. Either way — the conversation is hot & heavy.
#2 - It never fails to amaze me how easy it is to read the world view a person is using as a filter. It ALWAYS impacts the answers to questions that are posed. (As Deb so well in the original post.)
#3 - Failure to control (for yourself AND for your Tribe) both #1 & #2 is what prevents many from becoming Tribal Seducers. They fumble with “influence” and “persuasion” triggers… only end up coming off as Marketplace Molesters.
Sadly most entrepreneurs don’t realize that #3 puts them at a competitive disadvantage when a Tribal Seducer is on the same playing field.
Seduction is NOT just about influence triggers, tension, or even sex. As Dave Lakhani said earlier, seduction is more elegant than that. It is the atmosphere that all three of those things and more take place in.
And that is one area that women DO have a natural advantage in — having the patience to dedicate the time it takes to create and cultivate that necessary environment. Seduction IS naturally the goal for women. For most men, it’s something they need to do to get what they really want.
Anyone, man or woman can be an effective Tribal Seducer. It comes down to your ability to create and maintain that delicate balance between emotional highs, anticipation, and satisfaction.
May 3rd, 2008 at 9:08 am
Deb,
I just started following you on Twitter about a week ago, but I love your stuff. You have done a great job of keeping me engaged in your thoughts by sharing a very good mix personal, promotional, and informational tweets. I have to add in many ways, I have tried to model my activity in some ways after yours.
I think in many ways this post is very sexist, but it is also seems to hold true in many ways. When I think about the people I have un-followed most of them are men, and it is for many of the things pointed out in this post.
1) First, Why do some people ONLY use twitterfeed to repost url’s to their OWN blog? That drives me nuts. If I wanted that I would add you to Google reader!
2) Second, WAY to many @ posts. This is not Google talk folks. DM IM or make a phone call I don’t want to see half a boring conversation.
3) Finally, too many lame posts like: I need to go to the bathroom. Where is the bathroom. O-there it is! This feels nice. I just went to the bathroom. I don’t want or need EVERY detail of your life!
Anyways, It does seem that many women are a bit better at actually connecting vs. broadcasting on twitter, but we are working on it!
Interesting post Deb!
I’m @bmtrnavsky on twitter and I hope people find me interesting! http://twitter.com/bmtrnavsky
-Brad
May 3rd, 2008 at 10:39 am
Hi Deb,
Congratulations on creating such an interactive post and engaging so many people.
I’d like to address the part about social media marketing possibilities being greatest now for women due to distinct traits that we have.
Generalizing is never a good idea but I’ll go out on this limb to make two points:
In response to Dave Lakhani, woman as the “seductress” equates to her having more power in social media. However, being a seductress doesn’t necessarily correspond with one showing her breasts in a sales meeting. As John Paul Micek said, seduction is more elegant than that.
Man as the conquerer and woman as the seductress are both enviable qualities in marketing. The point that Deb is making that women have more potential influence in social media due to this — is correct.
However, while it seems obvious that women have “natural” tendencies to communicate and influence, I would disagree. Throughout history women have been held back, trained (brainwashed?) to act subservient to men in varying degrees. Women’s struggles to overcome that has been a long, hard fight and it’s not over. However, by using finesse (and perhaps seduction) we’ve wielded great power through less obvious ways, such as in the old addage “behind great men are great women”, whether that is factual in a significant number of cases or not isn’t the point.
This doesn’t just apply to influence over men. Women are superb marketers because they have learned throughout their lives to apply subtle yet powerful influence, the art of seduction.
The problem has been that our “learnings” have put us in the place where we are a bit too comfortable giving away the glory. We often fail at taking the glory, which is why “men hold the predominant positions of power.”
It is NOT that women are “ineffective at creating meaningful persuasion or influence strategies to get society to see them as being able to take an equal (and rightful) place in positions of power.” (Dave)
It is the generosity of spirit that’s not hardwired, but learned. This generosity has been somewhat of a hindrance perhaps, but in the social media world it not only brings an advantage over men but it lifts us up, over men, or at least will soon. It’s this spirit that will rally the tribes. Men will need to learn a lot before they can equally match the power of this (yes again) elegant seduction.
As for the disagreement over homeschooling by a woman being an advantage for Edison, or any other man, I’d merely say that the advantage Deb is referring to is not necessarily in “brain power” but in patience, persistence, intuition and observation, among other things.
And, while I’m sure everyone realizes this, the story of Adam and Eve with regards to Eve being formed out of the rib of Adam, seems obvious that the intention was that Eve be beside (and equal) to Adam, and thus women equal to men. It is the sum of our experiences that produce that which we become.
Social media more than levels the playing field. In the end it will tilt to our favor. Here’s another limb: we as women are willing, ready, and able to prove it.
Deb (mywebgal)
May 5th, 2008 at 11:46 am
JP - Thanks, by responding and clarifying you’ve made my point.
DEB (Mywebgal) - I don’t mean to be adversarial but social media is a platform, persuasion is a behavior both presenting and responding. And, it is a learned behavior. Neither men or women have an advantage other that the one created by deeply studying how to influence another person’s behavior. There is no natural advantage and there is no research I’m aware of that suggests that there is.
Where I will concede is that women may be more naturally adept at communicating with women and may be able to speak their language more readily than men but that only potentially gives them an edge when communicating with women. In the book Radically Transparent Beal/Strauss say that “Research has shown that female bloggers tend to use more words to say the same thing as male bloggers. Our observation is that femaile writers tend to use more relationship enhancing words in their writing as well, taking the time to wish people well in e-mails and such. Many men find this wordiness annoying, while some women find two word email responses annoying. If you are female, trying to impress male clients, trying getting concise in all of your internet writing. If you are a male writing to female audiences try adding some relationship building words and overlooking the wordy responses from your female senders.”
I’ll respectfully submit that the above statement from the authors is a definition of a persuasion strategy, not an indication that either sex is more proficient, they simply have their own styles of communicating, neither superior. The superior communication style is the learned flexible style.
In terms of generosity and alturism, it turns out it IS hardwired, there is a lot of research coming out that demonstrates that in fact alturism is a genetic issue in both men and women.
Are you really suggesting that all women are better at “patience, persistence, intuition and observation, among other things,” when it comes to raising children or education?
A good many Christians do not see the story of Adam and Eve as Eve being made from the rib to stand beside Adam, they’ve used it for thousands of years to control women and put them down. An unfortunate interpretation of a creation story. I like yours better.
I really enjoyed your considered response, I look forward to many more connections!
Be well,
Dave
Author of Subliminal Persuasion: Influence and Marketing Secrets They Don’t Want You To Know &
Persuasion: The Art Of Getting What You Want
May 5th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
I don’t want to commandeer this blog post with a discussion with Dave Lakhani, but it is Deb’s intriguing post that sparked this.
Dave, you’re right. Persuasion is a learned behavior and is both presenting and responding. No arguments. Nor do I have any qualms in saying that you’re correct in that anyone who DEEPLY studies how to influence behavior will have the most advantage, man or woman.
I find it interesting that you referenced a study showing female bloggers having a tendency to use more words than males. In that light, it’s difficult to ignore the length of your comments here. The fact is research/statistics can be manipulated to show whatever result is desired. The pharmaceutical industry proved that!
It’s curious that many men would find it annoying for anyone to extend common courtesies. Hmmm, then why are they called “common”? Too much and most anyone would agree. Women don’t have time to waste either. I won’t take the advice shared. Though many of my emails to clients (male or female) simply say, “done.”
As for research demonstrating that generosity and altruism is hardwired, we already know what I think of research results. It’s not a cop-out. If I had the time, I’m sure I could dig up “facts” otherwise. After all, women are not all generous or altruistic.
And yes, Dave. I am suggesting that women are generally more patient and such. We haven’t had much choice in the matter. We still aren’t paid as much as men for the same job, but we still strive for it. There are still more single-mother families than single-father families. Well, you see where I’m going with this, I don’t want to be too wordy!
I am glad you liked my interpretation of the Adam and Eve story. You might like my “apple” one too but I’ll save that for another day.
Another thing (of course)… One of my favorite things that you said in your comments above was that Deb could put the book “behind” her on the shelf. Loved that!
I’d say it’s been nice, but I don’t want to offend you — just kidding!
Deb (@mywebgal)
May 5th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
I agree. In general the socialization of women has prepared women business people to be more apt to take advantage of social marketing than men.
You go girl!
TL
May 5th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Thanks TL The Liberator!
Btw - are you on Twitter?
I’d love to follow you over there.
May 6th, 2008 at 10:32 am
Deb (mywebgal) -
Great catch. Of course my comments are long here, this is a largely woman audience so communicating with them in their perferred style is the best approach.
Notice my response to JP, much shorter and to the point.
And, the research was around email. I write whole books about the topic of persuasion that are directed to both men and women . . . how I write has an impact on who reads them. 65% of my clients are women.
I’m not going to be too tough on you about reserach, but peer reviewed articles that have replicatable results are the ones I tend to favor. I believe in being rigorous in thinking and testing. And, my experience has been when you find a lot of information that refutes each other it is one of two things, there is still a lot of testing going on or there is a spin doctor involved who is trying to make the other point because it is more profitable.
I’m a big fan of closing the gender gap in most things, especially pay. And, I’m afraid you’ll have to continue being patient, it was only the the very recent past that women moved out of the primary homemaker role and into the workplace. Societal shifts always take longer than those experiencing them would hope. I want them to speed up for my daughter but I know that no matter what strides we make, she’ll have her own set of challenges that she’ll overcome for her daughter.
I’m glad you liked the behind comment!
I’m a big fan of all mythologies and their interpretations, have been ever since I met Joseph Campbell and he got me on the path of understanding them. He pointed me in some really neat directions that got me past my religious cult upbringing.
Just try and offend me, it is nearly impossible!
Be well,
@Dave Lakhani
Author of Subliminal Persuasion: Influence and Marketing Secrets They Don’t Want You To Know &
Persuasion: The Art Of Getting What You Want
May 6th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Aloha Brad, (comment #49)
THANK YOU! Your comment MADE my day!
Your feedback on my Tweets on Twitter re:
“great job of keeping me engaged in your thoughts by sharing a very good mix personal, promotional, and informational tweets.”
…has just encouraged me to keep on tweeting!
(I recently had a guy tell me he couldn’t keep up with my tweets, and another one told me to “just stop” because I was “taking over his Twitter stream”.) grumble grumble
Since YOU are the kind of person I’m interested in attracting on Twitter, I’ll count YOUR feedback as higher qualified than the other guys who “may” just be trying to “silence” the female tweeter who’s competing with the big boys & Twitteratti on the Twitterboard.
Afterall, by you taking the time to come over here to this Entrepreneur blog that I write for, reading the article, and then posting your comment has demonstrated you’re the kind of Tweeter I want to meet, follow and get engaged with. (er - clarification: “engaged in conversation” big grin)
Oh - btw: Flattery will get you EVERYwhere! It’s an underrated skill, yet still remains highly effective. (speaking for myself, naturally, not “ALL” women.
Re: your #1 point - yeeeeeeeeees! that is equally a pet peeve of mine and most women tweeters who share their frustration on TWitter (but since those guyz aren’t really “listening” to their @ msgs or anyone else for that matter - that msg won’t “get through”.
But - that’s good! For YOU! And for ME! And for all the TWeeters out there “doing it right”.
Re: your #2 point - this is where I’d disagree re: Twitter NOT being Google Chat. The viral effect of TWitter is such that when you see an @ msg on someone’s Twitter stream, you’ve got to go check out who they’re talking to in order to “hear” the other side of the conversation. That’s how you get to meet other people’s friends / biz associations, etc.
That’s how you influence other members in your Twibe to follow each other, and get them exposure, etc. Make sense?
Now - I will say that SOME @ msgs go a lil too far.
When you go back and forth w/ only one person for a long time - THAT’s when it’s time to really connect with them and pick up the phone, or get on IM, etc.
That’s the REAL secret power of using Twitter in a powerful way.
Cuz “it ain’t JUST chat” as @TheFitB recently tweeted me once he realized the power of Twitter once he took conversations OFFline.
Keep on getting it right, and being influenced by the right Tweeters. I’m already impressed with you. See ya in the TWitterverse!
May 6th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Deb (mywebgal)
Hey girlfriend - commandeer this post as MUCH as you want!
THAT’s the point, quite frankly of WHY I wrote this controversial post.
I’m saying that women have this “natural-born” gift yet as the 1st & 2nd commenters stated above (@Yvonne_Lyon & @pprlisa) women aren’t necessary USING their influence as much as they could be.
Why not?
Well - that’s what I want to hear from readers here…
As I’ve recently tweeted this phenomenon & then instigated women giving me/us their best pitch in 140 characters. It was funny hearing from women who participated in this Twitter Party one Saturday evening, and who sent me private messages saying how surprised they were when they actually got MORE followers during that mini twitch fest (pitch + twitter) instead of losing them as they feared.
Hmmm… interesting eh?
May 6th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Hi again Dave Lakhani,
re:
In terms of schools today, I’m REALLY going to disagree. They don’t reward perfection nor do they punish mistakes (Think No Child Left Behind). They educate to the lowest common denominator not the highest, the brightest kids are not challenged. It is one of the biggest problems facing education today.
Hmmm… VERY good point!
I was referring more to the process of taking tests, and aiming for perfection, and getting a lower score when you’re “wrong” in academia. Or my college days when my professor wouldn’t even grade a paper when I submitted divergent thoughts in a unique manner. She actually told me I used too many “exclamation points” and would NOT grade it until I changed it!
Do you believe it?!?
Unless I conformed to HER way of doing things - I would be punished! Well I say pfffft to that! (and yes, all the !!!! intentional!)
Now I run my own business, and am rewarded for my expressive nature - ESP on TWitter!
perhaps why I’m such an addict? hmmmm
Anyhoo - yes - good point re: many public schools educating to the lowest level instead of the highest. I experienced that as well during my internship as a 6th grade teacher.
I guess that’s why I pursued the role of a “Coach” instead of “Teacher”. I like to inspire creativity, free thinking, and stretch people to be their BEST (not lower their standards in order for other people to feel comfortable.)
Ya know what I’m sayin’?
OH! And last but not least re:
Adam and Eve and the whole rib thing.
You may find this is a rather original take on the story than anyone else you’ve ever heard before…
I do NOT subscribe to the idea pervasive in earlier centuries that Eve was made from man and therefore inferior and had less worth.
I also do NOT subscribe to the more current idea of the latter century that Eve being made from the rib to stand beside Adam and therefore equal.
I propose this theory on why God made Adam first, observed his work and then perfected his creation by making Eve second.
Here’s the theory:
It’s kinda like when my mom taught me how to make pancakes when I was a little girl. (yeah, that’s about the ONLY thing I know how to make - just don’t tell JP Micek ok? It’ll be our lil secret?)
My mom showed me that when you make french pancakes you have to learn from the 1st one you make.
If it’s too soggy, you need to turn up the heat.
If it’s too burnt on the edges, you need to turn down the heat.
The 1st pancake will always be the worst. She called it “the test pancake” for all the rest.
With each french pancake (aka: crepes) you get better and better - until finally - the last pancake you make - Voila! Perfection.
And that’s my theory on women being made last and men being created first.
Adam was like God’s “test pancake”.
Eve was his “last pancake.”
‘Nuff said?
(not sure if my pancake theory will stand the test of Creationist or Evolutionist, but certainly Intelligent Designers will have to agree with this theory - right?)
And yes - I am hoping to win the Nobel Peace Prize from this theory. Think I’ve got a chance?
May 7th, 2008 at 4:24 am
CoachDeb! Interesting, and provocative questions. I’ll throw in my five bucks (hey — web 2.0 should be all about the “additional” value, right? $5.00 vs $0.02 :D):
I can’t speak for any other woman except myself, but in my travels through IT and now marketing I’m finding that a lot of people don’t really know “how to take” a woman who is aggressive.
In fact, there’s a silent “social code” that says that we shouldn’t be aggressive, that goes toe to toe with the standard “girl power” push. Can a woman be assertive (I prefer that term over aggressive, actually) and still be considered “part of the party”
The answer isn’t black/white/cut/dry as we would like it to be. It depends on the woman.
There is something to be said for the power of social media, but there is also something to be said about the power of being a confident little island too. One of the downsides of social media I see forming is the cult of the yes-people, a bitter island where everyone agrees with everyone lest we step on any toesies.
If I’m going to participate openly, I want to be able to stand on my own two feet first, stand for the projects I believe in, and go from there.
Don’t get me wrong: I love twitter. But as a “newbie” in the sense of coming out and joining the conversation, I will always be proud that I had my own voice among thousands, rather than simply cutting/copying/agreeing with whatever the latest “trend” will be.
Being able to contribute, keep your voice, and stay true to yourself are the real gifts to be shared in the social media dance.
Isabella Murphy (@nichelady)
StayingPaid.com